Hmmm, I wonder where I could get a copy of that?

Hopefully I have this thread back on track and didn't lose any of the original postings. You can find the discussion regarding the legal concerns of removing the magazine disconnect from Hi Powers HERE.

Good move Ed.

The Radom Vis wz. 35 is much thinner overall than the M1911 and the GP35. So is the SIG P210 in most parts, though its frame rail housing is about as wide as the M1911 slide. If you want a thin 9mm Para pistol, you can't beat the Radom.

You are correct sir, but both pistols are not readily available from a practical standpoint. I'm a big fan of the Radom and I think it was an excellent pistol (ergonomics are excellent). But let's be honest here; it's 99.9% Browning in design, so the Radom (to me at least) falls under the category of "can be improved upon." If you were to choose the Radom as a carry gun, you'd have a very difficult time finding spare magazines in very good condition.

Regarding the Sig: I honestly don't know anyone who carries a 210 on a daily basis, but I'm sure someone does. Mostly the 210's are relegated to collector/shooter status. You'll notice that the practice of carrying a Sig 210 is so rare that no major maker of concealment holsters even makes a holster for a 210 (that I know of, but I could be wrong). The Sig is horribly expensive and it's no where near THAT good, from a mechanical standpoint. It garners it's value from being rather rare and a super-high quality pistol.

So you're right and very astute of you to point these two out. That makes two pistols that follow the Browning design principles of making it as compact as possible.

P.S...If you follow the roots of the Sig 210, you'd see that they end at Browning's Grand Rendement...So maybe this qualifies as "can be improved upon", it's a stretch, but even the great 210 has a little Browning in it.

I easily found three original magazines for this gun at prices ranging between $75 and $95. I wouldn't carry a Polish Eagle because of its value, but someone who doesn't object to the Waffenamts could get a nice Grade I gun for the price of a new GP35. Parts are readily available on Gunbroker.I carry this P210-4 "Kuba". It is actually worth more than the Vis, so I am getting a late production Swiss Army P49 to replace it. Danish Special Forces still carry their m/49 in Afghanistan. Holsters are readily available in Europe. I got mine from Josh Bulman and Mitch Rosen.Actually, SIG engineers developed the patents of Charles Petter that owed no debt to Browning's designs for FN. It could be argued that the en bloc firing system was copied from Tokarev's TT30. Its internal design is all Swiss though.

Barrel locking and camming of the Sig 210 are all Browning, as is the slide inside the frame which comes from the Grand Rendement: http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f46/D ... owning.jpg

Not so. As I pointed out in the referenced article, after dispensing with the barrel swinging link, faithfully adapted by Charles Petter from the M1911, SIG engineers used two links pivoting around common upper and lower axes, for the sake of stabilizing the barrel trajectory during the cycling of the action, in the test prototype numbered 6004. This costly and complicated arrangement was superseded in the test prototype numbered 6007, by incorporation of two precisely milled surfaces, a locking device slot (Verriegelungsnut), and twin locking device curves (Verriegelungskurven), protected under Swiss Patent No. 270873. The rail relationship between the receiver and the frame was certainly inspired by the predecessor of the P49 in Swiss military service, the 06/29 Parabellum. Duly licensed Browning influences in the Swiss military trials were limited to the losing entries by Waffenfabrik Bern.

Well that sounds all well and good, but in this photo you can clearly see the lug arrangement that is identical to both the 1911 and Hi Power, and the barrel cam arrangement which is nearly identical to the Hi Power. Perhaps your reference source is speaking of a very early prototype, but the 210 in the photo and every one I've ever seen has a barrel locking and unlocking system that is pure Browning. As to your article, I just don't know what to say.

Edited to add...Charles Petter was a French military man who was involved in the review of the Grand Rendement for military service. The French rejected the design, and went about designing their own pistol, the 1935, which has obvious Browning influence.

Um, 499 Euros is a little over US$1,000.00, isn't it? And then there's shipping and importing costs. That's pretty steep for an unimproved carry gun.
I can understand paying more than $1K for a carry gun, once it has been through the shop of a pretty good gunsmith (or if it comes from a really good includes-all-bells-and-whistles manufacturer), but not for the basic raw material.
The Radom pistol may be slim and concealable, but it isn't that slim and concealable.
(That said, I have to admit that I sometimes carry a pocket pistol that's worth lots, lots more.)

As I have tried to explain above, the point of the twin locking device curves (Verriegelungskurven) was to replace twin coaxial swinging links that provided an additional measure of control in the arc of the breech falling and rising through the recoil cycle. That is what merited their protection under Swiss patent law. The Browning system developed between 1929 and 19356 comes well short of that.

The Vis wz35 seems thin until you remember it only holds eight rounds of 9mm in the magazine.

I have seen plenty of Vis pistols with more than 95% of their finish sell for around 400 Euros. At today's exchange rate, that amounts to about $544. My first import shipment cost me a bit more than that for licences and freight. Now I can do it for a lot less.

I do not regard properly made guns as "basic raw material". It may be fashionable in the U.S. to do 95% of easy gunsmithing at the factory, leaving the rest to the end user's discretion. That is not the case with gunmakers that I like, the prewar Radom factory being one of them.

My, how the dollar has improved in value since last I was in Europe (2007).

Not really.