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 Post subject: major events
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2010 18:46 
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I sold my first article in 1980 and since then have seen lots of stuff come... and go. I was about to say "new" and remembered a major event that changed my mind.

One of my earliest assignments... one of those things where the editor says "do this" was to go to CTand write about the little Seecamp .32 and the designer the late Louis Seecamp. I spent a great day with him and in the course of our conversation I used the word "new." He slammed his fist on the table and virtually shouted, "There is nothing new!"

In the context of firearms we probably ran out of new stuff around the turn of the last century and have seen evolution ever since.

I'm working on my list but help me remember the main events of the last 30 years...

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 Post subject: Re: major events
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2010 19:30 
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materials development,

1975 or so, every gun was either parkerized or blued, with wood, Only the Mattel o Matic was black.

Today, Stainless is everywhere, blued steel getting hard to find. as is wood, but even more so, plastic aka, polymer, FRN, etc, has drastically changed guns.

revolvers to autos.

short mags, (ishy)

Hi capacity. When did 8 round of .45 become too few?

optics on everything

silhoutte shooting

BPCR

SASS or CASS

EBR's as varmint and big game guns.

demise of Winchester.

AWB death of AWB

the PTC moverment, whether you call it, CCW< PCL<PTC but citizens getting the right back to carry. and the movement to meet that market.

Kahr,
Keltec
Glock
Magpul
LMT
DPMS
lots more I am missing


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 Post subject: Re: major events
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2010 21:26 
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guntotin_fool wrote:
... development ...
1975 or so, every gun was either parkerized or blued, with wood ... Today, Stainless is everywhere ...
revolvers to autos. ...
Your list is pretty consistent with Charlie's "Evolution" hypothesis. The only really new thing I can think of is using the ejection port for a locking surface and even that is derived from existing locked breech design concepts.

The real advances have been in bullet technology (Flying ashtray, Hydrashok, FBI Load and so on) and weapons training going back to men like Jack Weaver. (Charlie: Did you ever interview Mr. Weaver?)

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 Post subject: Re: major events
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2010 21:34 
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The Internet and it's affect on the firearms industry and it's enthusiasts. Buying/selling, information/disinformation, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: major events
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2010 22:32 
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I'd have to agree with Charlie; there's been nothing really "new" or "revolutionary" since before John Browning refined the autoloading pistol into the basic format we see today. Modern production techniques have certainly influenced bullet design, but that's just a refinement, IMHO.

Shooting techniques, now that's a possibility. I still have a mind's eye picture of the photo of the "prefered" FBI stance of my young childhood, which pictured a crouched G-man with his left hand across chest, fist clenched, while firing his revolver single handed with the sights well below eye level. What a difference form the "modern technique."

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 Post subject: Re: major events
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2010 22:38 
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Richard Jefferies wrote:
Shooting techniques, now that's a possibility. I still have a mind's eye picture of the photo of the "preferred" FBI stance of my young childhood, which pictured a crouched G-man with his left hand across chest, fist clenched, while firing his revolver single handed with the sights well below eye level.


I think there's a pic floating around somewhere of me presenting my P226 into a perfect "cup and saucer" hold.

And I'm surprised that the Gyrojet rocket pistol never caught on...

I thought that was pretty neat, impractical, but neat.

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 Post subject: Re: major events
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2010 00:17 
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How about all the light weight handguns, Scandium, Aluminum, Polymers etc.


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 Post subject: Re: major events
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2010 00:27 
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Some thoughts:

Sadly no I did not meet Weaver but did share a plane ride once with Bill Jordan who is pretty high on my list.

Moving the lockup to the slide is nothing more than a different, albeit easier, way of doing Browning's design

I think some of the ammo developments border on revolutionary

Somewhere there is doubtless a picture of me shooting in the FBI crouch because that's what they taught my first rookie class... the arm in front of your chest was to hopefully slow down bullets...

How did we become convinced that six rounds wasn't enough?

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 Post subject: Re: major events
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2010 03:46 
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I do think the materials change is close to revolutionary, as is the CNC vs man with a mill form of manufacturing.

I was recently given a demonstration of some integrated electronics in a sighting system. That is revolutionary. I can not post more, but folks, the digital age in compact electronics and the merger with traditional optics is coming.


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 Post subject: Re: major events
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2010 08:59 
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Charlie Petty wrote:
How did we become convinced that six rounds wasn't enough?


The younger generation started basing their threat assessments on what they saw in zombie movies and video games...

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 Post subject: Re: major events
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2010 11:27 
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WaltGraham wrote:
Charlie Petty wrote:
How did we become convinced that six rounds wasn't enough?


The younger generation started basing their threat assessments on what they saw in zombie movies and video games...



Ha ha! :wink: Hey, we have to be prepared -- JUST IN CASE!!!!!!! :mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen: :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: major events
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2010 11:45 
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Cartridge firearms using smokeless powder are a mature technology. Advances in materials, improved bullets, etc., are incremental improvements.

And there have been a number of backward steps, too . . . when the US military adopted the 1911, it was exceptionally reliable. But a couple of decades ago, a whole cottage industry sprang up to not only accurize the old warhorse, but to make it reliable . . . again. Something was lost for a while . . .

We've come full circle and most 1911s work well out of the box (I have reservations about those smaller than a Commander) . . . but they're really just refinements of a century old design.

Many folks - particularly those who hunt dangerous game - assert that the basic design of the M98 Mauser has not been improved upon. Sure, there are some arguably better designs for target shooting, but for reliability under adverse conditions, it's hard to beat an action with M98 parentage.

Laser sighting systems and holographic reticles are new, of course, but we've only seen incremental improvements in conventional 'scopes since the 1960s . . . which is when the first computer programs for optical design came into wide use, and anyone with access to a mainframe had the tools to do serious optical design. (PCs have been capable of this since ~ 1990 or so.)

The last few years have seen a number of riflescopes that include laser rangefinders come on the market, but I just read about a riflescope that incorporates a laser rangefinder and which will compensate for trajectory by automatically adjusting the aiming point . . . that's a pretty significant forward step, and I imagine it will be followed in short order by programmed compensations for temperature, air pressure, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: major events
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2010 12:44 
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You're right Hank, mostly just a lot of small steps. I've had a ringside seat for the 1911 and you'd probably have to pay extra to get a bad one today

Probably the real revolutionary part is due to CNC and if we've gone through four generations of Glocks there must be twice that many for CNC gear. We have to give them credit for showing the practical value of polymers and probably for starting the magazine capacity craze... although the P-35 was the first high cap.

Today at S&W one CNC machine can turn out a complete revolver side plate and it only takes two to make a revolver cylinder. Every firearm maker has CNC now and overall quailty is superior.

Materials are a big thing but mostly it has just been the application of existing technology to firearms.

Some of you may call me a heretic, but MIM is a significant development and a big cost saving. To be sure there have been bumps in the road but failure of MIM parts is pretty rare today.

Optics advances have changed the way we shoot and laser rangefinders are a big help. I'm not a big fan of laser sights , but they are helpful sometimes and improving as we go.

If there has been anything truly revolutionary it has to be in ammo and bullet design. I want to treat that separately, but it will involve a re-hash of the FBI stuff because they truly drove the bus. I credit Tom Burczynski and Hydra-shok for starting it though.

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 Post subject: Re: major events
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2010 14:23 
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Charlie, please add close-dimensional-tolerance, lost-wax casting of stainless steel to your list. That's quite a remarkable, if incremental, technological change.

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 Post subject: Re: major events
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2010 15:54 
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Early stainless steel had a tendency to gall where parts rubbed together. Development of gall resistant stainless steel enabled stainless steel firearms.

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